Season 7, Episode 5 December 17, 2023

On this episode, we'll hear about the original American Crisis, a new chapter in Project Blue Book, and the honor killing of a Missouri teen.  The Epilogue examines justice, while we hear about more racism and the next international conflict in Not the Headlines.

Transcript

S7E5

Hello!  Thank you for putting your ear to the Listening Tube!  I’m your host, Bob Woodley.  On this episode, we’ll hear about an American Crisis (but not the current one), Project Blue Book, an honor killing in Missouri and we’ll examine different types of justice...but first (Not the Headlines!)

Before I dive in, happy birthday to one of the Listening Tube’s subscribers, Dave from Al-a-bam-aaaaaa!

There’s plenty of speculation about how the weakness displayed by the Biden administration has emboldened conflict around the world.  The tyrant Putin found it a convenient time to invade Ukraine.  Hamas found it to be a convenient time to attack Israel.  Iran is now using its proxies to attack cargo ships, causing U.S. Navy vessels to intervene in Red Sea and Gulf of Aden conflicts involving attack drones supplied by Iran, modeled after American drones.  But it’s still all speculation.  There’s no real evidence that just because Joe Biden is the President of the United States that all of this turmoil is happening around the world.  Everyone’s just waiting for the other shoe, the invasion of Taiwan by China, to drop.  
But so far, the Biden administration has stepped up to the plate to help.  It may not be the right kind of help, or enough of it, but help nonetheless.  Aid to Ukraine and Israel.  A deterrent to China.  A lot of American treasure is being invested at a critical time in history.  Whether or not Joe Biden is responsible for the climate that let it all happen will be debated for years to come.
Another conflict is brewing, though.  In fact, the U.S. Air Force is already involved in training for it.  And this conflict may actually be a direct result of a Biden administration policy.  
About two months ago, in October of 2023, the Biden Administration issued an executive order suspending many of the sanctions put on Venezuela by President Trump in 2019.  Trump issued the sanctions because Venezuela had a sham election and was more of a dictatorship under President Maduro.  So Trump restricted Venezuela’s oil exports.  Maximum pressure to get Maduro to hold legitimate elections and prove Venezuela was a democracy.  Well, four years in, and it hasn’t worked.  Venezuela has chummied up with Russia’s Putin.  Then along comes the Biden Presidency.  President Biden finds himself in a situation where he stifled American oil production, causing lower investments in tapping new sources or using established ones.  Prices rose, and along with energy prices, and the covid money that was tossed around like confetti, inflation took hold and now Biden’s people are trying to find a way out of it.  American oil production is at an all-time high all of a sudden, and sanctions against Venezuela, which is an original OPEC member, become a tool for democracy.
The Biden people talked to the Venezuelan people and came up with a plan to reinstate democracy in the South American nation, and add more petroleum to the world market, all while planning to mandate electric cars for American drivers.  But that’s another subject.
So, the U.S. says that if Venezuela’s Maduro will allow an internationally supervised election in 2024, with opposition candidates and everything, most oil sanctions will be lifted.  Then negotiations begin, and Maduro agrees to the proposal, except that those Venezuelan citizens who have already been banned from holding office aren’t allowed to run for office in 2024.  That would include his most formidable opponent, Maria Corina.  Well, the Biden people capitulated, which means the opposition needs to come up with a whole new crop of candidates within the next year at most.  Odds are those candidates will become political prisoners after the election.  But it was a negotiation, and the Biden people said, “Alright, but the lifting of the sanctions will last for only six months.”  That sounds like pretty harsh terms.  Venezuela has a year to throw an election but they only get six months of relief from crushing sanctions?  Why would they even accept it?  I guess some relief is better than no relief at all.  It’s settled, then.  In exchange for the opportunity to sell it’s oil on the market without any restrictions on how much of it or to whom for six months, Venezuela promises to have a free and fair election by the end of 2024.
That’s American diplomacy, right there.  Working for the cause of democracy around the globe, and especially in the Western hemisphere.  Many of the illegal immigrants crossing our southern border by the thousands every day are from Venezuela.  It would be great if they wanted to stay where they are because they had democracy at home and weren’t ruled by a dictator.  I doubt there’s a plan if Maduro wins the assumed free and fair election, but I don’t think the Biden administration really cares who wins, as long as it’s fair.  If the opposition wins, it looks like a victory for democracy and the Biden administration for orchestrating the election.  If Maduro wins, the Biden administration can claim it’s alright now, and we can buy Venezuelan oil with a clear conscience.  
If that’s how all of that ends up, then maybe it’s a win for everybody.  But there’s more here than meets the ear.  You may have noticed that the deadline for Venezuela to hold their election is the end of 2024.  Guess who else has an election coming up next year?  That’s right!  Joe Biden.  Our American President.  So, while creating an election in Venezuela by the end of 2024, and allowing six months of unrestricted oil sales right before both the American and Venezuelan elections, the market will be flooded with oil, bringing down prices right before both Biden and Maduro are up for re-election.  How convenient.  Both men will take credit for improving their respective economies just before people head to the polls.  Afterward, one can imagine neither men caring about how they got where they are, win or lose.
By now you might be thinking, “Hey, Bob.  What about the Air Force and the conflict you mentioned earlier?”  I know, I know.  The one I said President Biden’s policy may have actually created.  Well, now that Venezuelan President Maduro knows he’ll have a six-month window to sell as much oil as he can, he’s putting the forces in motion to prepare for the window.  Some of the preparations include getting people and equipment to where it’s needed to maximize production and transport of as much oil as the country can muster.  After all, it’s a tight window, and they want to be ready for when it officially starts.  It will take a lot of logistics to get everything into place.  But there’s one more thing that has to happen first:  Venezuela has to invade Guyana.  You might be old enough to remember Guyana as the place where the Reverend Jim Jones moved is cult, eventually leading to a mass murder/suicide.  It’s where the phrase, “drinking the Kool-Aid” came from, as it was a mixed soft drink that was used to poison the flock, not Kool-Aid specifically.  As it turns out, Guyana has recently found itself to rich in oil reserves as well.  In fact, a vast area of oil formations may exist beneath Guyana and off its shore.  Because of those oil deposits, and the six-month opportunity to sell oil on the open market, plus the possibility to extend the suspension of the sanctions, Venezuela is threatening to annex a large part of its neighbor because there’s oil underneath it.  The United Nations even had an emergency meeting about it.  Maduro now wants to claim 160-thousand square kilometers of oil-rich land as part of Venezuela, and has even been shown holding a map of the newly reshaped country.  A country that is currently suffering widespread poverty.  Poverty caused by socialist policies, policies that are being supported by the American left wing.
So as a result of the Biden administration lifting oil sanctions on Venezuela, the United States Air Force is holding joint drills and exercises with Guyana.  It looks like we might be supporting another country against socialism, this time in South America.  If Venezuela invades Guyana for the oil that the Biden administration gave them six months to sell in exchange for having another election, we may end up causing a war between two other countries.  It looks like we’ve already decided to stick up for Guyana, as well we should, if for no other reason than that they’re just an innocent bystander in the whole affair.  The question now is how much support will Guyana get?  Will the American people even care about another conflict?  If tomorrow’s nightly news reported a U.S. pilot was killed in a training accident in Guyana, would anybody wonder why we had Air Force pilots training in Guyana?  Probably not.  And nobody would guess it was because the United States created the perfect conditions for Venezuela to invade Guyana.  We can debate if the United States created the perfect conditions for Russia to invade Ukraine and Hamas to invade Israel.  But is seems that in this case, Biden’s attempt to flood the market with Venezuelan oil just in time to help him, and possibly a dictator, get reelected might start another conflict, and this time it’s in the western hemisphere.  Oh, and where do you think all of that Venezuelan oil will go?  Probably not to the United States.  No, the Maduro regime has teamed up with the tyrant Putin, who is also a pal of the Iranian regime.  So, most, if not all of the oil the Biden administration is allowing to be put on the market will help Russia in their battle with Ukraine and Iran with their attacks through Hamas and Hezbolla.  All in the name of getting reelected.  That is what the Biden administration calls leadership.  

Racism is rearing it’s ugly side again.  So, who’s racist now?  Turns out it may be the Corporation for Public Broadcasting.  A recent Yahoo News story by Kevin Dietsch reports that a Native-American owned radio station in New Mexico, and another one in Wisconsin, got in trouble with the Corporation for Public Broadcasting for—get this—not meeting diversity requirements.  It seems all the employees were Native American!  What a travesty!  How dare they not have any white people working there!  It’s like that time my wife and I were in a restaurant on an Indian reservation in Nevada, and there weren’t any white people working there, either!  I had a taco salad.  I guess that’s diverse enough for me.  But if you want grant money from the Corporation, you have to meet certain criteria.  Having diversity among your employees is one of them.  
Now, you might be thinking, “How can the Corporation for Public Broadcasting be racist when they have diversity requirements?”  Well, first let me say again that racism, by definition, is simply the act of dividing ourselves into different groups by race.  There’s nothing inherently wrong with that.  It’s when rules are made that favor one group over another that problems arise.  You know, when we’re not all treated equally.  When there’s no favoritism based on race.  
The Supreme Court of the United States ruling this past June even made it clear that so-called “affirmative actions,” or when race is taken into consideration for college admissions, is a violation of the 14th Amendment to the Constitution.  The court basically said racism is racism even if its intentions are good.  And while the Corporation for Public Broadcasting may claim their intentions are good, there may be more going on.  
A Senator from the great state of Texas has written a letter to the Corporation to let them know he’s looking into whether or not the Corporations policies are allowed under the 14th Amendment.  If you only give grant money to public radio stations that have a certain number of each of the five races recognized by the Corporation, that’s a racist policy.  As to if it’s a good policy, well, it seems there’s some out-of-the-box thinking there.  The Senator suggests the Corporation for Public Broadcasting places race quotas on public squawk boxes not just for diversity of employees, but also as a means to insert desired subject matter and opinion where it wouldn’t otherwise be.  In other words, forcing radio stations to broadcast certain editorial content.  The president of the Corporation has been tasked by the Senator to explain how one doesn’t effect the other.  Good luck with that.  What’s been disguised as diversity is actually a mechanism to use policies that force editorial content that’s aligned with the values of the people making the rules, not necessarily those who run the station.  If you don’t put in the people we require, who will say the things we want them to say, you don’t get any money from the Corporation for Public Broadcasting.  By insisting on diversity quotas, the Corporation is actually muting any real diversity out there.  Like, oh, I don’t know, maybe the Native-American viewpoint?
Look, I know there’s plenty of racism and bigotry and prejudice in the world.  We don’t see as much of it as we did in the past.  Most people are more educated and accepting and welcoming than in decades past, plus people have gotten better at hiding their bigotry, or in the case of the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, disguising it as something else.  But then there are cases where racism and bigotry are proudly displayed, such as at a KKK rally or a skinheads convention or a City Christmas celebration in Boston.  You might be thinking, “Oh, yea.  Boston.  A lot of racist people there.”  And you’d be right.  And the Mayor of Boston is perhaps the most blatant example.  The mayor will be hosting a party only for those considered “electeds of color.”  In other words, you have to be an elected official, and you can’t be white, or I’m guessing, pink, or peach.  So all the other colors except those three.  Just to make sure the white, pink or peach people knew they weren’t invited, the Mayor accidentally sent invitations to the seven people on the city council who are those colors, and then, fifteen minutes later, emailed them again to tell them they weren’t invited.  The Boston mayor insists there’s nothing wrong with the “electeds of color” party, and that there are plenty of other parties where everyone is invited.  As to whether or not the mayor would be hosting any of those other parties, the report didn’t say.  
“...the electeds of color party is an appropriate way to celebrate ‘identity and culture and heritage in her city, said Mayor Michelle Wu.  I wonder what color she is….  

Let’s Go Back liner

1776
Thomas Paine publishes one of a series of pamphlets in the Pennsylvania Journal titled The American Crisis.  In December of 1776, the war of independence was still unresolved.  Winter was setting in.  Morale was low, not just among the soldiers, but of the people.  Thomas Paine saw the need for something to invigorate patriotism once more.  During that time, pamphlets were the social media.  Paine took to writing a series of them to bolster morale in the colonies.  You might be familiar with the iconic first line of the first volume:  “These are the times that try men’s souls.”  It goes on to say, “ The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of his country; but he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman.”  
At the time, General George Washington needed something to keep his troops in the fight.  He ordered the pamphlet be read aloud to his troops.  Three days later, Washington would attack Trenton.  Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph.

1898
Gaston de Chasseloup-Laubat sets the first officially recognized land speed record of 39.245 mi/h in a Jeantaud electric car.  Electric cars have come a long way since then.  There are now nearly twice as  many charging stations as there were in 1898!

1969
The United States Air Force closes its study of UFOs, called Project Blue Book, stating that sightings are generated as a result of “A mild form of mass hysteria, Individuals who fabricate such reports to perpetrate a hoax or seek publicity, psychopathological persons, and misidentification of various conventional objects.”
Just this past week, the President signed the Fiscal Year 2024 National Defense Authorization Act to fund the military.  Included in the legislation is a directive that the U.S. National Archives release any documents or other information about UFO’s.  Except that we don’t call them UFO’s anymore.  They’re now known as Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena.  A story on Space dot com says the new phrase is needed to include not just flying objects, but also objects under water, in space, or anything that can travel between those places.  The national archives are to gather and release anything that pertains to UAP’s, technologies of unknown origin, and non-human intelligence, once 25 years has passed since the document was created.  Time will tell what we might expect to find in all that data.  Anything newer than 25 years may be kept secret, but may be released sooner by the agency that created the record.

1991
A Missouri court sentences the Palestinian militant Zein Isa and his wife Maria to death for the honor killing of their daughter Palestina.  Honor Killing?  I’m quite certain the victim found no honor in being killed.  Palestina, who was obviously named after Palestine, was better known by her high school friends as Tina.  Born in 1972, Tina liked the popular music of the late 80’s and early 90’s and liked to dance.  Tina and her family moved to the West Bank when she was five years old.  Her father continued to observe his Arab customs and practices, even after the family moved to St. Louis when Tina was around 14, in 1986.  So much so, that he became a member of a Palestinian militant group.  For that reason, he was under FBI surveillance.  
Tina had begun working at a local Wendy’s restaurant instead of her family’s grocery store, and was dating a black man.  Her American lifestyle clashed with those of her sisters and her father.  It’s reported that the family even sent people to pull her out of her prom dance.  Phone calls were made.  Her father determined that her behavior had damaged the honor of his family.  She needed to die.
Having been walked home by her boyfriend after her first day on the job at Wendy’s, she was confronted by her parents, who, while upset that she opted to work somewhere other than the family’s grocery store, also didn’t believe she was actually working, but spending that time with her African-American boyfriend, who they didn’t like because he was black.  It was then that the young lady who considered herself American instead of Arab, was stabbed six times with a boning knife by her father while her mother held her in place.
The father claimed he killed his daughter in self-defense.  What he didn’t know was that the FBI had audio tapes of the murder.  Although both parents would be sentenced to death, neither was executed.  Both died in prison, though.  He from complications from diabetes, and she from natural causes.   

1996
The Oakland, California school board passes a resolution officially declaring “Ebonics” a language or dialect.  The term ebonics was first used in 1973.  By 1975, ebonics was defined as, “the linguistic and paralinguistic features which on a concentric continuum represent the communicative competence of the West African, Caribbean, and United States slave descendants of African origin. It includes the various idioms, patois, argots, idiolects, and social dialects of black people" especially those who have adapted to colonial circumstances. Ebonics derives its form from ebony (black) and phonics (sound, the study of sound) and refers to the study of the language of black people in all its cultural uniqueness.”  Ironically, such a descriptive and thorough explanation of ebonics can not be made using ebonics itself.

2002
Then Governor of California Gray Davis announces that the state would face a record budget deficit of $35 billion, roughly double the figure reported during his reelection campaign one month earlier.  Gray Davis was recalled.  Today, California’s budget deficit is a staggering 68-billion dollars.  The San Jose Mercury News says at the end of last year, Gavin Newsom was bragging about a 98-billion dollar surplus.  So what happened to all that money?  Since Newsom took office in 2019, state spending per resident has increased 56 percent.  At the same time, state revenues have declined, and estimates show a continuing decline resulting in annual operating deficits of about 30-billion dollars a year for the next three years.

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All opinions on The Listening Tube are my own.  If I say something you don’t like, you only have yourself to blame…

Phone and email liner

There seem to be many and widely varying ideas about what is “justice” today.  I believe there was a time when pretty much everybody had the same definition of justice, and it was determined by the law.  Sure, sometimes there may pop up an unjust law, but it will ultimately make its way through the court system until a decision is made at whatever level was needed to rectify the situation.  Sometimes an issue will go all the way to the Supreme Court, where justice determined is usually absolute.  There have been some surprises in the last year or two, such as abortion laws being sent back to the state level, or race no longer allowed to be used as a factor in college admissions.  There are other types of justice, though.  Not all justice is in alignment with the law.  Sometimes justice can be served outside the law.  The most interesting kind is when it’s a coincidence.  You know, like when a murderer gets off on a technicality, walks out of the courthouse and gets hit by a bus.  That might be considered justice.  That person’s lawyer might not think of it that way, as the lawyer might not get paid now, but there will be plenty of people who will shrug their shoulders and say, “Se la vie.”  Or Se la morte, as it were.  So, what’s justice for one person might not be justice for another.  The murder victim may have received justice not from the court, but from karma, if you believe in karma, or just a coincidence.  But the victim is still dead, so any justice only applies to the survivors or next of kin.
In America, the symbol for justice is a woman who is blindfolded, holding a scale in one hand and a sword in the other.  The symbolism behind her, according to a variety of sources, have specific meanings.  If you’ve ever heard the term, “Justice is blind” you’ll understand why she’s wearing a blindfold.  All that matters in her decision is the weight of the evidence, as symbolized by the scales.  It’s not supposed to matter what you look like, your social status, or how many nose rings you have.  The sword is double-edged, meaning a verdict could go either way, but a decision should be swift and final.  In the case of our alleged murderer, the scales could not be tipped in the direction of guilt.  Therefore the sword edge of punishment could not be used.  That’s where the bus came in.  It doesn’t always work out that way, though.  Sometimes the guilty are set free, and sometimes the innocent suffer the other edge of the sword.  It may be because of the way the evidence was presented.  It may be because of a crooked judge or a political agenda or some kind of pressure.  Sometimes lady justice’s blindfold prevents her from seeing what’s obvious to the rest of us.  Despite the worthy goal of equal justice, sometimes it just doesn’t happen sans bus.
Justice isn’t always about the law and how it’s applied.  In the last few years, other types of justice have received a lot of attention.  One of them is called “restorative justice.”  Restorative Justice has been around for a long time, and may even predate criminal justice.  Restorative Justice doesn’t need a lady with a blindfold and scales.  Restorative Justice doesn’t determine guilt or innocence.  What restorative justice is supposed to do is mend the relationship between the criminal and the victim and the community where the crime was committed.  Restorative Justice can’t always be applied, as it depends on the offender to admit guilt and a willingness to make amends to the victim, as well as reassure the community at large that the offense won’t happen again.  It’s another way to administer a type of punishment that is intended to not only restore the confidence of security for the victim and community, but to also restore faith in and dignity to the offender.  Restorative justice is a useful tool for first offenders, juveniles, and people who, for whatever reason, made a mistake they’ll regret for the rest of their lives, but are willing to do what it takes to try to win back the trust of those around them.  After all, most of us have done something we regret.  For some of us, that might have meant breaking the law in one way or another, and in hindsight, we don’t want that one instance to define us for the rest of our lives.  Restorative justice gives the offender the opportunity to make right was was wrong.  It can be used instead of criminal justice, or in conjunction with criminal justice.  When a criminal is caught, found guilty in court, and sentenced to serve time in prison, that’s the criminal justice part.  But even while the criminal sits in jail, the victim is still adversely effected by the crime.  Maybe they feel insecure, can’t sleep well, became paranoid.  Restorative justice gives the victim and the criminal the opportunity to communicate with each other.  Victims often have questions like, “Why me?”  They might think they were targeted for a reason.  Getting an explanation from the perpetrator can lead to closure that allows the victim to get on with their life.  It can also allow the perpetrator to discharge some guilt and move on as well.  But the most important part of restorative justice is repairing the harm done to the victim, and doing what can be done to keep the infraction from happening again.  But because of the possible lack of punitive measures, some see restorative justice as no justice at all.  And because restorative justice can be independent of criminal justice, a crime doesn’t have to be committed for someone to call for restorative justice.  If, for any reason, you feel you’ve been slighted or treated unfairly in some way, even if no crime was committed, you might still feel entitled to restorative justice.  Perhaps you were bullied, or discriminated against.  Do you deserve justice?  If restorative justice can exist outside legal parameters, who should determine if restorative justice is appropriate?  If neither the police nor the courts have jurisdiction, how can the need for restorative justice be determined?  If something happens in a school, perhaps a teacher or administrator could decide if restorative justice is needed.  But out in the general public, and if no crime is committed, only forces like social pressure or media attention can initiate a restorative justice resolution.  While restorative justice is playing a larger role in shaping criminal justice solutions, it can’t entirely replace criminal justice.
Another kind of justice can, however, be disguised as restorative justice.  That’s our next kind of justice.
While punitive justice is entirely in the legal system, and restorative justice can exist within or without the legal system, there’s another kind of justice that lives entirely outside of any legal system.  That kind of justice is called Social Justice.  Social Justice has nothing to do with law, nor does it have anything to do with helping a victim to heal or an offender to make amends.  Social justice is an ideal with many different definitions, most of which change with political or religious beliefs.  Theologians and other philosophers throughout the ages, from Socrates and Plato to modern thinkers and writers have leveled opinions about social justice and what it means, from the responsibilities of it to the benefits one should expect.  The United Nations has addressed Social justice, once calling it “an underlying principle for peaceful and prosperous coexistence within and among nations,” and in 2006 said that “Social justice may be broadly understood as the fair and compassionate distribution of the fruits of economic growth.”
Practically all religions espouse social justice.  Sharing what you have with those less fortunate than you is a form of social justice.  Every Christian religion, Islam, Hinduism, and Judaism all preach some form of distributing wealth.
Now, you might be thinking, “Gee, Bob.  Social Justice sounds a lot like socialism.”  And you would be right.  In fact, when you look at social justice on wikipedia, you’ll see that it’s part of a series on Green Politics, Liberalism, Progressivism,  Social Democracy and Organized Labor.  Tax money that is spent on social programs is one form of Social Justice.
Social justice is supposed to be a way to make everyone happy.  A way for everyone to benefit from the whole of society.  So, yes, it is a form of socialism, especially when applied to governance.  Not surprising, social justice has its critics.  While social justice is a valuable tool when it comes to human rights, those human rights don’t necessarily mean equal access to the benefits of society.  Social Justice advocates seem to blend them together more than most.  In this way, social justice warriors intend to link social justice to punitive justice in a way that doesn’t currently apply.  Philosopher and American diplomat Michael Novak argued that when social justice is incorporated into law,  “it becomes an instrument of ideological intimidation, for the purpose of gaining the power of legal coercion.”  
Economist Friedrich Hayek put it more succinctly when he said social justice was “meaningless, self-contradictory, and ideological, believing that to realize any degree of social justice is unfeasible, and that the attempt to do so must destroy all liberty.”  Hayek goes on to point out that while social justice is addressed as a moral virtue of the individual that benefits all of society, regulating it is an expression of power rather than morals.  Ben O’Neill, author of the book, The Injustice of Social Justice, says social justice “is merely an assertion of desire, and a declaration of intention to use the language of rights to acquire said desire.”

We all have our own ideas about what Justice is.  From the kind that involves an alleged murderer getting hit by a bus after being found not guilty by technicality, to punitive justice, restorative justice, and social justice.  There’s also schoolyard justice, Mob justice and prison justice.  Justice has many different forms and avenues, from punishment and restitution to human rights and sleeping with the fishes.  What can be judged, is judged.  Laws with punishment as well as religions with morality are what define justice for all of us, but we all have different beliefs and viewpoints.  Probably all of us have been a victim of some sort, and many of us have been the ones doing the harm.  As you may have already witnessed, justice is not always served.  Not all forms of justice are just.  Not every plea for justice is a plea that deserves to be addressed.
What’s important to justice no matter how you see it, is that justice itself is distributed evenly.
    
This is the last episode of the Listening Tube for 2023!  The Listening Tube will return in January.  Until then, feel free to catch up on past episodes.  There are more than 80 of them!  The Listening Tube is written and produced by yours truly.  Copyright 2023.  Thank you for putting your ear to the Listening Tube.  Subscribe today!  I’m your host, Bob Woodley for thou ad infinitum.